I found this substack article insightful. It offers a compelling reconciliation of the Apostle's Creed with Jesus' promise to the penitent thief that He would be with him in paradise. Be blessed!
Good question. In my opinion, this would be something like Samuel being called up from the realm of the dead. Saul and the witch of Endor did it through necromancy. Christ, of course, called them up in his own power shortly before they would have been permanently liberated from Sheol. This is speculative, but I think it fits the biblical material.
Applicable and helpful article for those of whom have questions potentially swirling. I recently had a brief discussion after my explanation with one of our elders during one of our catechism classes that our Church (Coram Deo) was ministering.
Key elements of the view you outline are, I believe, supported by Jesus Himself in Luke 16:19-31. There Jesus tells the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Note that Luke does not describe this as a parable. (Where else in a parable is a character given a name?) Instead, Jesus simply tells of the actual experience of two men, and in the telling Jesus confirms some key elements of the afterlife prior to the resurrection of Christ. Thanks for a helpful article.
Simply put. When one dies they “sleep” until their resurrection. They neither go to heaven or hell. There are 3 resurrections in the Bible #1 the Firstfruits who have died in the faith, who become the Bride of Christ at His(2nd)Coming then the rest who have died (all of mankind who were never called) lived not again until the end of the millennium, which is the 2nd resurrection, is when all will have their first opportunity to know the Truth of God to accept Christ as their Saviour and to choose or reject the symbolic Tree of Life. The 3rd resurrection is for all who have rejected their Firstfruit calling (and the 50% of the Laodiceans who do not repent in the coming Great Tribulation) and are cast into the lake of fire, which is the 2nd death, to be as if they never were. Not in an eternal life in hell, that is a diabolical myth! That has been concocted by a false traditional christianity!!!
Now, when Christ died he was dead ( slept) for 3 days & 3 nights as prophesied. And then Resurrected, he had not yet ascended to the 3rd Heaven to be received unto God the Father.
The “thief” will not meet with Christ in “paradise” until he is resurrected when he comes up in the 2nd resurrection, After Christ has reigned 1000 years as the King of Kings over the whole earth when The Kingdom has been established for a Millennium. It’s all 100% Scriptural and each in their own order. Prove all things….
Jesus was dead until he was raised. It is in this NEW SPIRIT LIFE that he spoke to the spirits. 1Pet 3:18 is quite clear. The thief never went anywhere except the grave where he awaits a resurrection to new life as Jesus received.
We can all agree that Christ’s death on the cross was consequential. For those of us who are saved from God‘s wrath, we understand that we have been changed. We no longer think, or even act like we once did. For us, this is huge. It’s life altering. It affects us for eternity.
According to Acts 17:11, the Bereans were considered "more noble-minded" because they received Paul’s message with great eagerness and diligently examined the Scriptures daily to verify if his teachings were true.
This is where we find ourselves today. It’s good to research and study. We need to understand things according to the ways people thought when the scripture was written.
The view espoused here is called the idea of “Abraham’s Bosom” or a two-compartment view of the afterlife before Christ’s resurrection, but there is another prevailing view.
1. The Reformed tradition generally does NOT hold that Paradise was a temporary holding place separate from God’s presence. Instead, it teaches:
1. Believers have always gone directly to God after death
2. “Paradise” = the presence of God, not a waiting room.
So when Jesus says: “Today you will be with me in Paradise”. He means immediate fellowship with God.
Luke 16 (Rich Man & Lazarus)
1. Is seen as a parable, not a literal map of the afterlife.
2. It teaches:
1. real separation between the saved and the lost.
2. There is conscious existence after death.
3. There are not necessarily two compartments in one place.
Ephesians 4:8 (“led captivity captive”)
1. Is interpreted as:
1. Christ triumphing over sin, death, and Satan
2. Not relocating souls from a holding area
1 Peter 3:19 (“preached to the spirits in prison”)
1. Common Reformed explanation:
1. Christ, through the Spirit, preached in the days of Noah.
2. This is not a post-death visit to release souls.
Why is the “Holding Place” idea rejected?
1. It may imply believers were not yet in God’s presence. If that were the case it would conflict with passages like:
“to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord”
2 Corinthians 5:8
2. So it is concluded the Old Testament believers were saved the same way we are.
1. Through Christ (even before the cross, by promise)
2. Therefore, they were with God, not separated from Him.
In short, there is no contradiction.
1. “Descended into hell” = Jesus experienced the full judgment of God on the cross
2. “Today you will be with me in Paradise” = after death, Jesus (and the thief) entered the presence of God.
“For Christ also suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which He also went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.”
Michael, great clarification... I just shared it.
Hey thanks Jim! Hope you’re doing well brother
Doing well... I will be cross-posting this later today.
I found this substack article insightful. It offers a compelling reconciliation of the Apostle's Creed with Jesus' promise to the penitent thief that He would be with him in paradise. Be blessed!
Great examination of the subject
We recite Apostles Creed but changed "hell" to "the grave."
If this view is true, and believers were "prisoners" in Sheol, then how can Moses and Elijah be with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration?
Good question. In my opinion, this would be something like Samuel being called up from the realm of the dead. Saul and the witch of Endor did it through necromancy. Christ, of course, called them up in his own power shortly before they would have been permanently liberated from Sheol. This is speculative, but I think it fits the biblical material.
Applicable and helpful article for those of whom have questions potentially swirling. I recently had a brief discussion after my explanation with one of our elders during one of our catechism classes that our Church (Coram Deo) was ministering.
May the Lord continue to bless you and keep you!
Fantastic! Spot on. Thanks much.
How about a teaching on the Holy Spirits work in the old testiment vice post pentacost.
Key elements of the view you outline are, I believe, supported by Jesus Himself in Luke 16:19-31. There Jesus tells the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Note that Luke does not describe this as a parable. (Where else in a parable is a character given a name?) Instead, Jesus simply tells of the actual experience of two men, and in the telling Jesus confirms some key elements of the afterlife prior to the resurrection of Christ. Thanks for a helpful article.
Yes I think that’s correct
I’ve never heard an explanation like this. It’s so helpful. Thank you!
🌐 ☦️ 🪨 🎣 ✨⛪
The devil, death and hell took the bait.....
....Jesus smashed the gates⛓️🚪 & locks! 🔓🗝️
🎶 CHRIST IS RISEN from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs, bestowing LIFE! 📯🎵 🔔 📖 📣
Haha that’s impressive!
4th century 🌍
Simply put. When one dies they “sleep” until their resurrection. They neither go to heaven or hell. There are 3 resurrections in the Bible #1 the Firstfruits who have died in the faith, who become the Bride of Christ at His(2nd)Coming then the rest who have died (all of mankind who were never called) lived not again until the end of the millennium, which is the 2nd resurrection, is when all will have their first opportunity to know the Truth of God to accept Christ as their Saviour and to choose or reject the symbolic Tree of Life. The 3rd resurrection is for all who have rejected their Firstfruit calling (and the 50% of the Laodiceans who do not repent in the coming Great Tribulation) and are cast into the lake of fire, which is the 2nd death, to be as if they never were. Not in an eternal life in hell, that is a diabolical myth! That has been concocted by a false traditional christianity!!!
Now, when Christ died he was dead ( slept) for 3 days & 3 nights as prophesied. And then Resurrected, he had not yet ascended to the 3rd Heaven to be received unto God the Father.
The “thief” will not meet with Christ in “paradise” until he is resurrected when he comes up in the 2nd resurrection, After Christ has reigned 1000 years as the King of Kings over the whole earth when The Kingdom has been established for a Millennium. It’s all 100% Scriptural and each in their own order. Prove all things….
What are your thoughts on the risen dead that were seen on the earth at that time?
Oh, I believe it for sure. I am just curious about the reason for it.
Jesus was dead until he was raised. It is in this NEW SPIRIT LIFE that he spoke to the spirits. 1Pet 3:18 is quite clear. The thief never went anywhere except the grave where he awaits a resurrection to new life as Jesus received.
We can all agree that Christ’s death on the cross was consequential. For those of us who are saved from God‘s wrath, we understand that we have been changed. We no longer think, or even act like we once did. For us, this is huge. It’s life altering. It affects us for eternity.
According to Acts 17:11, the Bereans were considered "more noble-minded" because they received Paul’s message with great eagerness and diligently examined the Scriptures daily to verify if his teachings were true.
This is where we find ourselves today. It’s good to research and study. We need to understand things according to the ways people thought when the scripture was written.
The view espoused here is called the idea of “Abraham’s Bosom” or a two-compartment view of the afterlife before Christ’s resurrection, but there is another prevailing view.
1. The Reformed tradition generally does NOT hold that Paradise was a temporary holding place separate from God’s presence. Instead, it teaches:
1. Believers have always gone directly to God after death
2. “Paradise” = the presence of God, not a waiting room.
So when Jesus says: “Today you will be with me in Paradise”. He means immediate fellowship with God.
Luke 16 (Rich Man & Lazarus)
1. Is seen as a parable, not a literal map of the afterlife.
2. It teaches:
1. real separation between the saved and the lost.
2. There is conscious existence after death.
3. There are not necessarily two compartments in one place.
Ephesians 4:8 (“led captivity captive”)
1. Is interpreted as:
1. Christ triumphing over sin, death, and Satan
2. Not relocating souls from a holding area
1 Peter 3:19 (“preached to the spirits in prison”)
1. Common Reformed explanation:
1. Christ, through the Spirit, preached in the days of Noah.
2. This is not a post-death visit to release souls.
Why is the “Holding Place” idea rejected?
1. It may imply believers were not yet in God’s presence. If that were the case it would conflict with passages like:
“to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord”
2 Corinthians 5:8
2. So it is concluded the Old Testament believers were saved the same way we are.
1. Through Christ (even before the cross, by promise)
2. Therefore, they were with God, not separated from Him.
In short, there is no contradiction.
1. “Descended into hell” = Jesus experienced the full judgment of God on the cross
2. “Today you will be with me in Paradise” = after death, Jesus (and the thief) entered the presence of God.
Scripture helps to explain this ….
“For Christ also suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which He also went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.”
1 Peter 3:18-20
Psalm 16 and Zechariah 3 read together says a lot to clarify what Jesus did over the 2 days. Yes, Sheol but wasnt left abandoned there (Ps 16) because He has a meeting to attend the next day (Zech 3). http://ungrammaticalmessage.com/2024/06/11/zechariah-3-what-happened-after-jesus-died/